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Kris Millegan discusses his father's work for the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), Military Intelligence (G2), and the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) in the Philippines, Indonesia and Vietnam; his father's work with Ed Lansdale; the JFK assassination; what his father told him about secret societies, communism and plans to opiate an entire generation; secret societies in general, and Skull & Bones in particular; his anthology, Fleshing Out Skull & Bones; the Illuminati; control of both sides in controlled conflict; secret societies control on three levels; Antony C. Sutton's Technology and Soviet Economic Development published by the Hoover Institute; Sutton's National Suicide; Sutton's America's Secret Establishment: An Introduction to the Order of Skull and Bones; and Sutton's sudden death.
This is Guns and Butter.

How I look at it is you have the secret societal system that’s able through different people, through different organizations, is able to effect change within different countries. And they play countries against each other, they do all kinds of things. Their endgame is to rule the world through China, these secret societies.

I’m Bonnie Faulkner. Today on Guns and Butter, Kris Millegan. Today’s show: Skull & Bones: Secrecy and Our Republic. Kris Millegan is a publisher, writer and musician. His father was in the Office of Strategic Services, the OSS; Military Intelligence, G2; and later in the CIA rising to Branch Chief, Head of Intelligence Analysis for East Asia. His father told him things he didn’t understand in the late 1960s. These revelations led to over 40 years of research into the subject of CIA drugs, clandestine operations and secret societies. His publishing house, Trine Day, brought Antony Sutton’s America’s Secret Establishment: An Introduction to the Order of Skull & Bones to a wider audience. He started Trine Day in 2000 as a vehicle to get suppressed books into wider circulation. With no shortage of spiked materials, Trine Day has grown to over 100 volumes in print and has succeeded in achieving a wider distribution for suppressed works. He edited and is a contributing author of Fleshing Out Skull and Bones: Investigations into America's Most Powerful Secret Society.

BONNIE FAULKNER: Kris Millegan, welcome.

KRIS MILLEGAN: Well, thank you for having me, Bonnie.

BONNIE FAULKNER: In the preface to your anthology, Fleshing Out Skull and Bones: Investigations into America's Most Powerful Secret Society, you write that, “This book started as research into trying to understand some things my dad told me.” Who was your father? Could you take us through his history with intelligence?

KRIS MILLEGAN: Well, his name was Lloyd Millegan and at the age of 18 he was an exchange student to the University of Shanghai – this was in 1936. He started working with the State Department then. The State Department asked him to gather anything that he could about the Japanese. He left Shanghai a week before the Japanese bombed it, went up to Vladivostok, went across the Trans-Siberian Railway through Moscow to Vienna, then went up to Berlin, and then finally ended up in 1937 at the World Council of Churches with the Dulles brothers. And then he went back to school and graduated in 1939.

He was supposed to go to a school in Switzerland for study on international relations, but World War II had started and he ended up getting as far as the basement of the Library of Congress in Washington D.C. where he was working under Archibald MacLeish, who was a member of the Order of Skull and Bones. While he was there they gave him the Philippines desk and told him to become an expert on the Philippines. He was in William Donovan’s – Wild Bill Donovan’s – first organization, COI coordination, Coordinator of Information. Then he went from there to OSS.

Then when he was in OSS he got drafted in World War II and OSS said, “Great! You’re still going to be working for OSS, but we’re going to put you into the military. We do not trust General MacArthur and one of his aides, Colonel Willoughby.” They wanted him to spy on them and also to gather anything that was printed within the Japanese-controlled Philippines at that time. They put him on as the personal and private secretary to a Dr. Hayden. He had been in charge of the Philippines education system, the library system. The United States owned the Philippines. And then when the Japanese invaded the Philippines, Dr. Hayden was working with a bunch of the guerillas. Dr. Hayden left the Pacific Theater to talk to Roosevelt, came back to the United States. He died when he was in the United States.

They took my dad out of theater and then sent him back to the Philippines to pick up the paperwork that Dr. Hayden had. Then he went back to the Philippines and started working a lot with the guerillas. He worked with the guerillas, went with them into Manila way before the American troops. He sequestered the Japanese puppet government’s library and papers. He got sued by the Japanese government for that and got given a Legion of Merit by the American government for that.

When MacArthur finally arrived into the Philippines, into Manila, he found a bunch of his friends in jail because MacArthur had been raised in the Philippines. His father, Arthur MacArthur, was the first military governor that they sent over there during the Spanish-American War. There’s a very thin oligarchy in the Philippines and so these were MacArthur’s friends that were in jail. He didn’t like that, and he said to get rid of my father.

They moved my father then from the Philippines to being head of research and analysis for the invasion of Japan, and they had to get somebody to replace him into the Philippines, and that person had to be both in OSS and in military intelligence, G2, and there were very few of those people around and the person they got was a gentleman by the name of Edwin Lansdale. He was very much an interesting person. My father started working with him in psychological warfare during World War II. Then my father was given a special aegis between V-J Day and his muster, and that was that he was supposed to write a special report on the Japanese use of heroin and opium before and during World War II.

Then he went back to D.C., went through a couple of alphas and was in CIA when it began. His last overt job in CIA was Branch Chief, head of all of East Asia Analysis office. Then in 1951 he went covert. They needed somebody – my dad was a rather liberal guy, he was from the West Coast. They needed somebody to go talk to Sukarno in Indonesia and so they sent my dad and actually myself and my brother and sister and my mom as a family to go with him to Indonesia.

Then he came back to the United States and what he told me later on – as kids we were told he had a job as an advertising salesman for the Glenn Fall Sunoco around D.C., but actually what he was doing, he was helping to write what’s now known as the PDB, the President’s Daily Briefing. He explained to me that, he called it a newspaper that they helped write for the president and the generals every morning. Then in 1956 he was sent to the Far East.

Again, he met with Lansdale in Vietnam, and he must have written a report because Lansdale was soon recalled and then my dad ran into some interference and he told me he left the Agency soft in 1957, and then left them hard in 1959. In 1957 he all of a sudden went from being a part-time speechwriter for a senator and other things to becoming a vice president of a college in Nashville. And then, like I said, in 1959 he was asked to be president of the college. The president had quit. He said no and left and moved the whole family out to Oregon.

He later told me in 1969, when he took me into a room with a Dr. D. F. Fleming from Vanderbilt, that he had quit them in ’59. That’s one reason he was talking to me in ’69, because he had signed a piece of paper that said he couldn’t talk for ten years. I thought about it later and it didn’t make much difference, I thought, because nobody would believe what he had to say.

BONNIE FAULKNER: So your father was working for intelligence in some very big hot spots – Philippines, Vietnam, Indonesia. You mentioned the rebels in the Philippines. Now, were you referring to Philippine rebels that were going up against the Japanese?

KRIS MILLEGAN: The Japanese, yes. He was working with the guerillas that were going against the Japanese. There’s a book that he edited, written by Mernando Abaya who was a major Philippine journalist. It’s called Betrayal of the Philippines.

BONNIE FAULKNER: A friend of mine has told me, and I wanted to ask you about this, that with regard to Ed Lansdale’s work in the Philippines, that somehow guerilla groups in the Philippines were either infiltrated or directed or whatever and then wiped out eventually. Do you know anything about this?

KRIS MILLEGAN: Well, there was a “communist insurgency, the Huks,” and Lansdale ran a campaign. It was mostly psy-war. It was mostly false battles and where they would say there’s a big to-do and then he would take his guy who he ended up getting elected as the president, Ramon Magsaysay, would be the big hero. It was mostly a false battle campaign. They would do things such as to scare the people. They would kill a body and drain all the blood out and tell people that there were vampires and stuff like that.

BONNIE FAULKNER: Well now, was this campaign in order to turn the general population against the rebels or was it to figure out who they were so they could be wiped out?
KRIS MILLEGAN: A little bit of both, but the biggest thing was the stage show to get the guy that he wanted elected president, president.
BONNIE FAULKNER: Yes, okay. Now, you mentioned that you and your whole family went to Indonesia. Now, eventually the head of Indonesia that your father was meeting with was overthrown, right?

KRIS MILLEGAN: Absolutely, yes.

BONNIE FAULKNER: Yes, that was a very, very bloody and horrifying overthrow. What do you think your father’s mission there was?

KRIS MILLEGAN: Sukarno had just consolidated power and had just come up with the country of Indonesia. It had been owned by the Dutch, and this was after World War II and the colonies were going away. He was for the people and stuff like that, so they needed somebody liberal that he could talk to, so they sent my dad to talk to him and help set up a relationship with Sukarno.

BONNIE FAULKNER: Right, and then Sukarno was overthrown by Suharto, right?

KRIS MILLEGAN: Yes, and we left in the end of 1952. And then my dad came back, and he just stayed covert, and what he told me was that’s basically when he started to write what’s now known as the PDB, being the part of the group that wrote that, because before then he had been Branch Chief head of all of East Asia analysis office.

BONNIE FAULKNER: Well, was he writing the presidential daily briefings from Indonesia?

KRIS MILLEGAN: No, we came back to the United States and lived in Fairfax. We were only in Indonesia for about two years.

BONNIE FAULKNER: I see, and then when was Sukarno overthrown by – I get these names mixed up.

KRIS MILLEGAN: It’s Sukarno and Suharto. Remember, Sukarno had the Bandung meeting, and they were going to have a Third World line between – you’d have the commies and the capitalists and then you would have this Third World, which was all the other powers trying to get together to be a thing.

Then also, there is the situation of the gold, and I strongly recommend people read a book called Gold Warriors by Sterling Seagrave. He is the son of Thomas Seagrave, the Burma surgeon. He was raised in Southeast Asia. Most of his books were Book of the Month Club and New York Times Bestsellers until he wrote Gold Warriors. He got so many death threats that he moved to France, and he had to publish it himself. There is an edition that has come out from Verso out of England.

If you read it your jaw just drops, and Lansdale’s a big part of it, MacArthur’s a big part of it, Nixon’s a part of it. But, you see, the Japanese had a thing called Operation Golden Lilly that started in the ‘30s and they would go through Korea and China and they would go into every little village and big town and say, “Give us your gold.” And they stuck around some of these places for almost ten years, and so they would get the easy gold and later on, there was a huge amount of gold and precious gems that were stashed in Indonesia, Burma and most of it in the Philippines. And Lansdale, ten days after he arrived in the Philippines, ended up doing an interrogation on somebody that led him to this gold, and this gold’s a big part of – we gave a bunch of it back to China and then there was a bunch of this gold that was used to finance CIA operations and other things.

BONNIE FAULKNER: So approximately how long was it after you and your family left Indonesia that Sukarno was overthrown?

KRIS MILLEGAN: Off the top of my head, I’m going to say about ten years. Seems to me it was right around 1960, but I don’t know.

BONNIE FAULKNER: Okay. Well then, it was a substantial amount of time?

KRIS MILLEGAN: It was a substantial amount of time, but my dad wasn’t involved with that. He became aware of the drug trade and that was his big reason for leaving. He just would not stand for it; he wouldn’t have anything to do with it.

BONNIE FAULKNER: Are you referring to Indonesia or Vietnam?


BONNIE FAULKNER: I see. When was your father in Vietnam and what was he doing there? And you were there as well right?

KRIS MILLEGAN: No, this was 1956. We were left at home and told that father was going to be writing this book on the Church in Southeast Asia, and we were taken to our grandparents’ house in Oregon.

He met with Lansdale at a little town called Tay Ninh in Vietnam, the home of Cao Dai, which is a secret society. And I knew about the trip when I was a little kid, and then my dad died in 1990 and I was in the midst of doing a lot of heavy research on a subject I call CIA drugs. One of the things I was trying to find out, because I had been told that Chiang Mai, Thailand, which is the second largest city in Thailand and is basically a heroin city – there’s a four lane highway straight to the Golden Triangle and all the big banks have branches there – that it had been a small, little village in my lifetime and is now the second largest city, and I was trying to find information. I couldn’t, and was having a hard time.

And then after my dad died I’m going through his papers and I see in his 1956 trip itinerary he’d been in Chiang Mai, Thailand, and I said, “Great. I can go speak with my mother about this.” So the next time I see my mom, I visit home, I ask her, “Mom, how big was Chiang Mai, Thailand?” She says, “Oh, it wasn’t very big. Probably the biggest thing in town was the church. I've got some pictures of it.” I’m reaching up – right next to where she’s sitting is her bookcase with her picture books in it, and I’m pulling down the picture book from that time and she says, “And that’s when I stopped believing everything I read in the newspapers.”

My mother was a very good CIA wife. I would ask her questions all the time and she would say, “I don’t know anything. I don’t know anything.” Because my dad was very sick for the last ten years of his life and I really couldn’t talk to him much. So she says, “Well, that’s when I stopped believing everything I read in the newspapers.” And I said, “What do you mean?” She said, “Well, they’d been in Vietnam and they’d gone from there to Bangkok and then to Chiang Mai, and the big story in the Thai papers was about this big battle in Vietnam right where they had been.” She said, “There was no battle. We were having a picnic.”

So I turned the picture page a couple pages and there’s my dad talking to Lansdale in Vietnam, and then there’s this beautiful picture of my mother, and I ended up showing it to my siblings later on and it became one of the main pictures of her memorial because she’s just vivacious in it. She’s sitting there and her skirt’s kind of twirling, and you can see, sitting on the ground over there, there’s Lansdale and they’re having a picnic, and there’s these people with fatigues and those little Australian-type Ranger hats walking around. And I look at the caption that my mother had written down and its says, “Out from Saigon was Colonel Lansdale and North Vietnamese military leaders.”

So in doing my research, in 1955 we took over Vietnam after Dien Bien Phu in 1954. In 1955, Lansdale, because the French intelligence and the Corsican Mafia were still running the Golden Triangle, and Lansdale asked them to leave and they said, “Well, no,” and so there was a shooting war. This is Gerald Posner’s – one of his first books talks about it. This was one of the very few shooting wars between Western intelligence agencies, and we went up there and took over the Golden Triangle. This is right after . . . So my dad gets there in ’56, and also you can read about Lansdale going up into Vietnam and bringing down a whole bunch of people from North Vietnam; actually, it was all of Vietnam at that time.

See, what my dad told me in 1969 with the professor from Vanderbilt, he opened up his mouth and the first words he said was Vietnam war is about drugs; there’s these secret societies behind it. I’m thinking he’s talking about the Mafia, is the only thing I could think of, and this is 1969. And then he tells me “And communism is all a sham. These same secret societies are behind it all. It’s all a big game.”

And at that point in time I think my dad’s nuts. I’m a teenager and this is the late ‘60s and I know more about drugs than he does. And then this little light bulb comes on in my head and says, “Oh, he’s having the drug talk with me,” He hadn’t had the other one. I was married and had a six month old kid. So I start to straighten up and I’m getting ready to say, “Yes, sir,” and all this, and waiting for my dad to tell me to stop smoking pot. And he doesn’t. He tells me all about his intelligence career, and then they start talking about how their playing out a lose scenario in Vietnam. Then they start talking about psychological warfare and sway pieces, and it soon becomes apparent that I have no idea what they’re talking about.

So this meeting in ‘56 that my dad had with Lansdale, for my money he was right on, because they took American boys and girls, sent them to Hell for one year and then those boys and girls, some of them got addicted to the heroin that was being proffered to them by anybody who was 12 years and up, and then what does a junkie do? A junkie sells junk. And you take these boys and girls that come there from all across America and send some of them back as junkies, because what I determined – and what my dad told me, too; he actually told me this before the meeting with the professor.
He had told me one time, he said, “They’re out to opiate your whole generation.” And this was the first time I’d ever heard the word opiate. I knew what it meant. And I remember telling him, “Listen, I never see that stuff. I just smoke a little pot.” And he came back at me and said “Well, I don’t care; you’re still making money for them.” And the way he spat out them, I knew he didn’t like them.

So also, the other thing is, right after that, my dad came back. Lansdale was recalled from Vietnam, so I figure my dad wrote a report and it wasn’t very good, and Lansdale then was recalled. And there are people who say Lansdale was in Dealey Plaza that day, and for my money he was the scriptwriter of the Kennedy Assassination.

BONNIE FAULKNER: Well, yes. There’s a very famous picture taken in Dealey Plaza in the aftermath of the assassination of President Kennedy that clearly shows what Fletcher Prouty said is Ed Lansdale walking down the street. The view is from behind, but the characteristic twist of his hand identifies him. This, according to Fletcher Prouty, and, of course, its one of the many pictures of the three tramps.

KRIS MILLEGAN: Right. And there was also a general who was very familiar with Lansdale that concurred with that. And you know, where did Lansdale come from? I live out in Oregon and there happened to be, the town I live in Eugene, outside Eugene there was his nephew. Ed Lansdale’s nephew lived here for many years, and we used to get together and talk, and we figured that Ed was an advertising guy from San Francisco, and there was the possibility that he had been connected with some of the occult groups in San Francisco. And that was one way that he got involved, because, again, I look at this through what my daddy told me and the secret societies. And for what my research has shown, at the end of the day that’s who the ruling bodies are, is through the secret societal network.

BONNIE FAULKNER: Now, your father did tell you that there was a plan to opiate the boomer generation. Did he go into any detail about that or say why this was being planned?

KRIS MILLEGAN: No. He just said, “They are out to opiate your whole generation”


KRIS MILLEGAN: This is exactly what he told me.

BONNIE FAULKNER: What else did he tell you that you haven’t yet mentioned?

KRIS MILLEGAN: Well, you know, I’ve mentioned it, but this whole thing of playing a lose scenario in a war. He told me that and – they were talking about that they were working on a report, a worldwide assessment, and it was my understanding that this was when Eisenhower became president and there was this worldwide assessment. And in that they talked about Vietnam and what could happen there, and they laid out a whole bunch of scenarios. And he told me that they’re playing out one of the lose scenarios. And I had just a really hard time with that. I mean, I had a hard time with the statement that communism’s all a sham.

These same secret societies, I couldn’t get my head around that, and trying to get my head around the fact that they’re playing out a lose scenario in war, because at that point in time I was 19. It was the day before my 20th birthday. I was still trying to get my head around, “Well, let me see. They’re trying to send me to war and they want me to go kill people, but then there’s rules.” I mean, when you try and kill somebody I don’t understand how there’s rules in that, you know? I just didn’t understand that, and then somebody tells me that they’re playing out a lose scenario in a war – I mean, that was even harder to understand.

BONNIE FAULKNER: Now when you say a lose scenario, are you saying that one of the scenarios or one of the possible objectives was to lose the Vietnam War? Is that what you’re saying?

KRIS MILLEGAN: Well, no. What it was is that they would say, “Okay, if we do this, this will happen,” and they had a bunch of different scenarios about what could happen in Southeast Asia. And one of the scenarios was, “Well, if we back a Roman Catholic in a Buddhist country it’s not going to work. It will fail,” and so that was the lose scenario they were playing out. In other words, in this report they’d said, “Okay, we could do this, we could do that, we could do this, we could do that,” And in one of these things they picked the one that was a lose scenario.

BONNIE FAULKNER: Huh. So that sort of indicates that maybe, well, I don’t know, that they were planning on losing?

KRIS MILLEGAN: Right, right. I mean, he’s telling me this in 1969. I still have a hard time getting my head around it but yes. Because, again, it’s a secret societal network. And the other thing he said in there, communism is all a sham; these same secret societies are behind it all; it’s all a big game. It’s all a big game, okay?

So, how I look at it is you have this secret societal system that’s able through different people, through different organizations, is able to effect change within different countries, and they play countries against each other, they do all kinds of things. Their end game is to rule the world through China, these secret societies.

Here’s how the secret societies run the world. This is a leviathan of three levels; each level has three parts. The top level is mining, metal and money. And, you know, you think about it and it kind of makes sense. And then the middle part is a very active part; they use war a lot, and that’s drugs, guns and oil. And you see, it was a guy from Skull and Bones in 1855 that made gasoline for the very first time, and as soon as he made that – Dr. Benjamin Silliman Jr. – he wrote a letter to the Pennsylvania Rock Oil Company of New York who he did the report for, and he said, “Gee, gentleman, you have some very valuable products with a very inexpensive process.”

As soon as he wrote that report the Pennsylvania Rock Oil Company of New York was sold to investors in New Haven, Connecticut. That’s where Skull and Bones is. And the Bissells, who had started the Pennsylvania Rock Oil Company, and the Townsends, who they’d gone to for financing it, soon had their very sons at Yale in the Order of Skull and Bones. There’s Rockefellers in Skull and Bones. So they then proceeded to monopolize everything around oil.

The only reason we go to the oil store is because they own it. There’s other ways of making power. The internal combustion engines patents go back to the 1840’s; they were using a coal slurry. Well, like I said, they’ve just monopolized everything. Skull and Bones was started by the Russells and the Taft family. The Russells were the owners of Russell and Company, the largest opium smuggler in America and the third largest in the world. Guns – Skull and Bones is based in Connecticut. At one point in time the thing on their license plate said “America’s arsenal” because, well let me see, the helicopters started there in Connecticut, the submarines started there in Connecticut, you have all the Browning automatic rifles for World War I and World War II, almost a straight line up from the temple of Skull and Bones. And then you have a lot of gun manufacturers there. Prescott Bush was on the Armed Services Committee.

And then where this meets the road, it’s media, movie/music because they’ve got to control the culture or the culture will bite ‘em, and then at the very end is “magic,” their ability to hoodwink us and their preponderance in using mass trauma to scare the crap out of us and keep us in line. I wish I could, you know, say, well, here, I’ve got all kinds of information but when you’re dealing with secret societies, intelligence services, drug smuggling and stuff like that there’s a lot of reasons that they obfuscate.

BONNIE FAULKNER: What first piqued your interest in Skull and Bones at Yale University in particular? Now, obviously, there are a lot of secret societies but you mainly focused on Skull and Bones. What piqued your interest in Skull and Bones?

KRIS MILLEGAN: Well, you know my dad mentioned secret societies. He never mentioned Skull and Bones, and it was the thing I found the hardest to find any information about. Basically during – was it 1988? The George Bush campaign – I came across Anthony Sutton’s book America’s Secret Establishment: An Introduction to the Order of Skull and Bones, and that started to make some sense about what my dad had said. Because, like I said, I had the hardest time getting my head around “and communism’s all a sham; these same secret societies are all behind it.” And if you look at America’s Secret Establishment, it goes into how they were financing communism and financing Russia and other things, so it started to make some sense. And then when I looked at the people that were in Skull and Bones I said, yeah, these guys are the main group.

Now, there are basically seven secret societies at Yale. There’s Scroll and Key, and Book and Snake. I find Book and Snake very, very interesting. When Skull and Bones was started you only had Yale College and you had Sheffield Scientific School, and you could only join Skull and Bones if you went to Yale College. So the people at Sheffield Scientific School, about 20 years after Yale was founded, founded Book and Snake. And you have people such as – Bob Woodward’s a member of Book and Snake, Nick Brady, the Treasury Secretary, is a member of Book and Snake. But when I looked at Skull and Bones, they were the most powerful, the oldest secret society.

BONNIE FAULKNER: The Order of Skull and Bones was founded how long ago as a chapter of a secret society based in Germany?

KRIS MILLEGAN: 1832 is when it was formed as the Order of Skull and Bones. There are scholars, Masonic scholars, who trace it to Phi Beta Kappa. Phi Beta Kappa was first started at the College of William and Mary, two offshoots went – one went to Yale and one went to Harvard. Then came along the Revolutionary War, and the College of William and Mary was shut down, Yale and Harvard kept going. We had our first big anti-Illuminati scare in the late 1790s, and then in the 1820s we started to have an anti-Masonic movement grow up, and by the 1830s it became not very cool to be in a secret society. So first Phi Beta Kappa at Harvard became an open society and then in 1832, a bunch of people that were in Phi Beta Kappa formed the Order of Skull and Bones, William Huntington Russell and Alonzo Taft.

BONNIE FAULKNER: I always thought that the term Illuminati was some sort of invented term, but it turns out that Illuminati was the actual name of a secret society based in Bavaria. Is that right?

KRIS MILLEGAN: Absolutely, yes, and it was all started by a Jewish guy at a Jesuit university and it was all about Greek. It was all talking about Greek. See, Phi Beta Kappa was started in 1776, the same year that the Bavarian Illuminati was started. It was started on May 1st and Phi Beta Kappa was started in December, and it was the first all-Greek society here in the United States. So like I say, there are several researchers and scholars who say Phi Beta Kappa was the Illuminati that came to America.

BONNIE FAULKNER: In some of the parts of Fleshing Out Skull and Bones that you’ve written, you go into an analysis or an explication of these different familial groups within Skull and Bones. I mean there were the Bundies, and apparently McGeorge Bundy, his brother and his father were Skull and Bones, and McGeorge Bundy was in many administrations including President Kennedy’s. And he was really undercover for the intelligence agencies, wasn’t he?

KRIS MILLEGAN: Yeah, they were CIA also. And McGeorge is an interesting guy. He helped cause the Bay of Pigs situation.

BONNIE FAULKNER: That’s right. He countermanded, I just discovered, President Kennedy’s order to support the Bay of Pigs, and the flights were called off by McGeorge Bundy and then blamed on President Kennedy – something like that.


BONNIE FAULKNER: And then, of course, the whole Bush family, they’re in there. I mean, there’s so many people that we’re familiar with in powerful positions that come out of Skull and Bones. It’s actually quite amazing in your book.

KRIS MILLEGAN: Well, and it continues. The Black-something group that Steve Swarthmore – he’s Skull and Bones. They own Sears and Kmart now. Your Treasury Secretary Mnuchin is Skull and Bones.

BONNIE FAULKNER: I did an interview with Webster Griffin Tarpley on events leading up to World War I. According to Webster Tarpley, secret societies and fraternal lodges in many different European countries played major roles in alliances and events causing World War I. In your research, have you found that members of secret societies have wielded extraordinary power in causing conflagrations?

KRIS MILLEGAN: Oh, yeah. Yeah. They help cause them, they’ll sell arms to both sides, and then you find them at the peace treaties, too, helping make sure that there’ll be another war.

But once somebody picks up one of these books and wants to make a movie out of it, and if they want to make an honest movie about it, all the knives are brought out. I can tell you, I was dealing with one gentleman, he’d been executive producer of a major TV show. He saw how the powers-that-be were using that TV show to create false narratives. He stepped out, found our books, and wanted to make several of them into movies.

First off, they started getting computerized phone calls. Their place got broken into, their bank account got sequestered. He called me up one time and said, “Well, you know, there’s this guy chasing me all around town in a white SUV and I can’t shake him.” Another time he called me up and said, “Well, they’re trying to get me fired. They’re putting out rumors that I’m out on Sunset selling Oxycontin at night. My boss knows that that’s not true.”
They kept soldiering on. Then he called me up and said, “Well, I’ve got to take sabbatical,” and I said, “What’s going on?” He said, well, somebody met his wife on the street corner and said, “Hey, if your husband doesn’t stop what he’s doing we’re going to kill him and then you. What are your children going to do?” So then he called me back up in two weeks and said, “Well, I guess we’re just making Will Farrell movies.”

BONNIE FAULKNER: Now, the book that your Hollywood colleague was trying to make a movie out of, or whatever he was trying to do, which book that you published was that?

KRIS MILLEGAN: Well, Franklin Scandal was one, another was Dr. Mary’s Monkey and another was A Terrible Mistake, the story of Frank Olsen.

BONNIE FAULKNER: In the preface you ask, “Do these secret societies create and control both sides in controlled conflicts to produce outcomes to further their new world order designs?” Have you decided on an answer to that question?

KRIS MILLEGAN: Yes, they do. I mean, its thesis, antithesis, synthesis and, you know, if you can control both sides, the antithesis and the thesis, then you have a good chance of getting the synthesis that you want.

BONNIE FAULKNER: Now one of the big contributors to your book Fleshing Out Skull and Bones, of course, is Dr. Anthony C. Sutton and I read some of his contributions to your anthology. In 1968, the Hoover Institute at Stanford University published Western Technology and Soviet Economic Development by Anthony Sutton. According to your book, Anthony Sutton’s research and publications claimed that the majority of the Soviet Union’s large industrial enterprises had been built with the United States’s help or technical assistance. Now, you met Anthony Sutton, didn’t you?


BONNIE FAULKNER: His background is really very impressive. I guess he was born in the UK, he had this incredible education, and he worked in all of these very heavy-duty industries, mining, steel etc., and then went on for more education at UCLA, Stanford. Did you work much with him?

KRIS MILLEGAN: I had the great pleasure of meeting him and working with him the last couple years of his life, yes.

He was working at the Hoover Institute and they asked him to write that book on the Western economics and the Soviet technology, and he had published the first two books. It’s a series of three books. And when he got to the third volume, which was in the late ‘60s, they said, “Oh, well, no, we don’t want to publish that one right now.” And Anthony, you know, he was a naturalized U.S. citizen and to do that you have to read your Constitution, and so he was very aware of the Constitution and he didn’t quite understand this. So he kept talking to them, and they said, “Well, Anthony, don’t break your rice bowl.”

And he broke his rice bowl. He went ahead and – because they wouldn’t allow him to publish the third part, so he went around them and published it as National Suicide. Because basically, what his research had shown was that the war materiel that the Russians were sending to the North Vietnamese – because the North Vietnamese were not backed by China; they were backed by Russia, so much so that China would not allow trains to go across China from Russia to Vietnam. He found that almost all the war materiel was made in conjunction with U.S. technology, sometimes even U.S. plants that were ordered through Italy that were set up in Russia, to make the war materiel so that the North Vietnamese could fight us in the Vietnam War. So that was his first revelation. He got fired from the Hoover Institute at Stanford for doing that.

So then he started to write what are his Wall Street books. He wrote Wall Street and FDR, Wall-Street and the Bolshevik Revolution and Wall Street and FDR and Hitler.

Then after he had written those books somebody called him up and said, “Hey, would you like a list of people in Skull and Bones?” and he said, “Sure.” And they sent it out to him – he had to return the thing in 24 hours so he copied it and put it in a box underneath his desk.

He told me, after a while he was sitting there and he kicked this box and he said “Oh, yeah.” He looked into it and he said, oh, well, these are a bunch of the people that he had been writing about. So he then started to write these little booklets about Skull and Bones, and he could find nobody to publish them here, so he found a publisher in Australia that would publish them. But then they started getting stolen off the docks.

And at this point in time there was no Internet and he had a newsletter, and some people on his newsletter said, “What do you mean nobody will publish them?” This was a mom-and-pop print shop up in Montana, so they started publishing his books. And I had sent letters to them, but I had never heard back from them, and finally I started writing about Skull and Bones and I started trying to get magazines to publish and nobody would touch it. Finally I found High Times and High Times wrote an article. Then the Internet came around and I put it up online and Anthony just sent me an email one day, and we became friends.

BONNIE FAULKNER: And Trine Day does publish his book on Skull and Bones, right? You do publish that?

KRIS MILLEGAN: Yes, America’s Secret Establishment, and he has quite a few other ones out there that people can find. They’re very, very good. We published his last article in Fleshing Out Skull and Bones; it’s about 9/11.

BONNIE FAULKNER: Were you suspicious about his death or did it seem natural to you?

KRIS MILLEGAN: Well, when I first went to Anthony, he said – well, you know, because it was going out of print. I said, “Anthony, we can’t do that.” And at the same time we had Alexander Robbins coming out – because there were no books on Skull and Bones and I had talked to these people before and I figured out finally I was talking to a spook, and they were trying to figure out who was going to be the talking head for Skull and Bones. Because pretty soon we were going to have John Kerry vs. George Bush and there was no way that they could get around it.

So I completely re-typeset the book and I presented it to him and he said, “No, no, no, no. I just want you to take a picture of the old book. I do not want them to even think that I’m thinking about them” - because he had pretty much stopped his research and he was doing a future technological newsletter, mostly talking about future technology.

So I said, “Okay,” and we did that. I got his book printed, delivered it to him, he was dead within three weeks. His girlfriend told me, “Well, some people moved in upstairs and then moved out right after he passed.” He dropped dead in his kitchen. I couldn’t get anything out of the coroner other than heart. They said he had a heart attack. I could get nobody to run an obit on him; nobody would touch it.

BONNIE FAULKNER: Nobody would even do an obit for him?

KRIS MILLEGAN: Hmm-mm. Nobody would do an obit.

BONNIE FAULKNER: How old was he? Do you remember?

KRIS MILLEGAN: Maybe 72, something like that.

BONNIE FAULKNER: Oh, so he wasn’t all that old.

KRIS MILLEGAN: No. Yeah, yeah, because he would have been the go-to talking-head guy, and he was gone.

BONNIE FAULKNER: You mean with regard to Skull and Bones or what?

KRIS MILLEGAN: Yeah, with regard to Skull and Bones. So they ended up using Alexander Robbins, who was a member of the Order of Skull and Key.

BONNIE FAULKNER: I did read some of his stuff that’s included in your anthology Fleshing Out Skull and Bones, and it was interesting that he was able to analyze Russian technological prowess and their industrial capabilities and, of course, as I sort of mentioned before, they were getting help from the United States not only to build some of this stuff, but technical assistance.

He made a point of saying that the prevailing view in the United States was that the Russians were ahead of us. I remember all of this from when I was a kid. “The Russians are going to beat us.” But he proved in this trilogy about Russian industrialization that this was a fantasy, that this wasn’t true at all, that their system of top-down control was really preventing creativity and innovation and they weren’t going to outstrip us at all.

KRIS MILLEGAN: Right. Well, but you know, you’ve got to have somebody to be afraid of, right, so that you can move the population in the direction that you want. And again, I mean, I go back to my father telling me communism’s a sham, these same secret societies are behind it, it’s all a big game. I still have a hard time getting my head around all that.

BONNIE FAULKNER: Yes, exactly. And one of the shocking revelations in some of the stuff that Antony Sutton wrote that’s included in Fleshing Out Skull and Bones is that Henry Kissinger, against the strong objections from the U.S. Department of Defense, transferred incredible technology to the USSR that enabled them to build missiles etc.

KRIS MILLEGAN: Well, you’ve got to have an enemy.

BONNIE FAULKNER: What about secret societies in general? What is most important to understand about them?

KRIS MILLEGAN: That they’re secrecy is not good for our republic. Kennedy had that big speech about secret societies and about secrecy. The secrecy allows these forces in the shadows to game us and to have their way with us.

BONNIE FAULKNER: Kris Millegan, thank you so much.

KRIS MILLEGAN: You’re entirely welcome, and thank you.

I’ve been speaking with Kris Millegan. Today’s show has been: Skull & Bones: Secrecy and Our Republic. Kris Millegan is a publisher, writer and musician. His publishing house, Trine Day, brought Antony Sutton’s America’s Secret Establishment: An Introduction to the Order of Skull & Bones to a wider audience. He started Trine Day in 2000 as a vehicle to get suppressed books into wider circulation. With no shortage of spiked materials, Trine Day has grown to over 100 volumes in print and has succeeded in achieving a wider distribution for suppressed works. He edited, and is a contributing author of, Fleshing Out Skull and Bones: Investigations into America's Most Powerful Secret Society. Visit his website at

Guns and Butter is produced by Bonnie Faulkner, Yarrow Mahko and Tony Rango. Visit us at to listen to past programs, comment on shows, or join our email list to receive our newsletter that includes recent shows and updates. Email us at Follow us on Twitter @gandbradio.